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Kawboy's restoration/conversion of a 1980 KZ13
- biltonjim
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5 days 13 hours ago #33236
by biltonjim
Replied by biltonjim on topic Kawboy's restoration/conversion of a 1980 KZ13
On the issue of the shells standing proud - I encountered this about fifty years ago, whilst rebuilding a small British Ford engine. Unsure how to proceed, I looked through some old motoring magazines, the type devoted to modifications and uprating performance. In one article, it was stated that the shells should be filed flush with the mating surface of the crankcase / bearing caps. However, I consulted a local precision engineer who had a good reputation for engine machining, and he told me that the shell must be slightly proud of these surfaces when fitted, in order to prevent any movement of the shell in its housing when tightened down. A search of the internet - 'bearing crush' - turns up this very topic. As for the mis-alignment of the oil holes in your shells, are they the originals? Are the shells identical for both upper and lower crankcase halves?
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- Kawboy
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5 days 12 hours ago #33239
by Kawboy
As for the oil hole- the bearing shell looks identical to the main bearing shells but the parts manual has different part #'s for the secondary shaft bearings, so maybe the previous owner replaced the plain bearings and could only get the mains and used a set for the secondary shaft??
If anyone could post a pic of the lower case half with the bearing shell in it, it would be appreciated.
At the moment I'm at a loss. This set up doesn't follow any normal standard that I know of. Even the fact that the oil gallery is cut into the support in the casing that the shell fits in. That would have system oil pressure pressing on the back side of the bearing shell. Neverr seen anything like it before.
Replied by Kawboy on topic Kawboy's restoration/conversion of a 1980 KZ13
I can appreciate the "bearing crush" idea. I think what may be happening here is that the old shell has sprung a bit and not fully sitting in the case, although all of the upper shells are sitting just fine. Wierd .On the issue of the shells standing proud - I encountered this about fifty years ago, whilst rebuilding a small British Ford engine. Unsure how to proceed, I looked through some old motoring magazines, the type devoted to modifications and uprating performance. In one article, it was stated that the shells should be filed flush with the mating surface of the crankcase / bearing caps. However, I consulted a local precision engineer who had a good reputation for engine machining, and he told me that the shell must be slightly proud of these surfaces when fitted, in order to prevent any movement of the shell in its housing when tightened down. A search of the internet - 'bearing crush' - turns up this very topic. As for the mis-alignment of the oil holes in your shells, are they the originals? Are the shells identical for both upper and lower crankcase halves?
As for the oil hole- the bearing shell looks identical to the main bearing shells but the parts manual has different part #'s for the secondary shaft bearings, so maybe the previous owner replaced the plain bearings and could only get the mains and used a set for the secondary shaft??
If anyone could post a pic of the lower case half with the bearing shell in it, it would be appreciated.
At the moment I'm at a loss. This set up doesn't follow any normal standard that I know of. Even the fact that the oil gallery is cut into the support in the casing that the shell fits in. That would have system oil pressure pressing on the back side of the bearing shell. Neverr seen anything like it before.
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- kawaBCN
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5 days 8 hours ago #33240
by kawaBCN
RUN LIKE THE WIND¡¡¡
Replied by kawaBCN on topic Kawboy's restoration/conversion of a 1980 KZ13
I don't know if it will be of much help to you but these photos are all I have found of the partition of my crankcase block.
RUN LIKE THE WIND¡¡¡
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5 days 7 hours ago #33241
by Kawboy
Replied by Kawboy on topic Kawboy's restoration/conversion of a 1980 KZ13
Thanks for posting KawaBCN. It confirms exactly what I'm looking at and I'm still not sure if it's a sound way to lubricate the secondary shaft.
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4 days 15 hours ago - 4 days 14 hours ago #33242
by Kawboy
Replied by Kawboy on topic Kawboy's restoration/conversion of a 1980 KZ13
I figured out the oil feed to the outboard secondary shaft bearing and I can honestly say it's the worst design I could have never imagined.
The oil supply is fed through the lower crankcase to the port at the secondary bearing and then channeled around the secondary bearing shell through that channel to a channel in the upper crankcase half to another port that feeds oil to the water pump shaft bearings and the squirt hole that oils the water pump chain. Where that channel in the upper crankcase enters the port, a hole in the upper plain bearing taps off oil supply to lubricate the secondary shaft bearing.
Now that being said, it's critical to not apply excessive crankcase sealant for fear of blocking that supply channel. I would even go so far as to not apply any sealant anywhere near that groove. the only fear here would be an oil leak from the head of the crankcase bolt adjacent to that groove.
Now looking at the bearing shell in the upper case for the outboard bearing , it appears plugged as well. So where's the oil feed. Comes from the lower crankcase port that also happens to be the oil feed channel that the oil pressure switch is in, so I'm comfortable with that one.
So this is the groove in the upper case half that receives oil from the mating groove in the lower case half and then feeds oil to the secondary shaft bearing and the port that supplies oil to the water pump shaft bearings
This bearing shell lines up with the oil port. My issue is that too much crankcase half joint sealant could block the groove that's behind the bearing shell and block oil flow to the secondary shaft bearing and the water pump bearings. Really stupid design and it could set you up for failure on a rebuild
And here is the pic of the secondary shaft outer bearing shell that's lined up with the feed port in the lower crankcase.
The oil supply is fed through the lower crankcase to the port at the secondary bearing and then channeled around the secondary bearing shell through that channel to a channel in the upper crankcase half to another port that feeds oil to the water pump shaft bearings and the squirt hole that oils the water pump chain. Where that channel in the upper crankcase enters the port, a hole in the upper plain bearing taps off oil supply to lubricate the secondary shaft bearing.
Now that being said, it's critical to not apply excessive crankcase sealant for fear of blocking that supply channel. I would even go so far as to not apply any sealant anywhere near that groove. the only fear here would be an oil leak from the head of the crankcase bolt adjacent to that groove.
Now looking at the bearing shell in the upper case for the outboard bearing , it appears plugged as well. So where's the oil feed. Comes from the lower crankcase port that also happens to be the oil feed channel that the oil pressure switch is in, so I'm comfortable with that one.
So this is the groove in the upper case half that receives oil from the mating groove in the lower case half and then feeds oil to the secondary shaft bearing and the port that supplies oil to the water pump shaft bearings
This bearing shell lines up with the oil port. My issue is that too much crankcase half joint sealant could block the groove that's behind the bearing shell and block oil flow to the secondary shaft bearing and the water pump bearings. Really stupid design and it could set you up for failure on a rebuild
And here is the pic of the secondary shaft outer bearing shell that's lined up with the feed port in the lower crankcase.
Last edit: 4 days 14 hours ago by Kawboy.
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1 day 13 hours ago - 1 day 7 hours ago #33257
by Kawboy
Replied by Kawboy on topic Kawboy's restoration/conversion of a 1980 KZ13
Got the crankcase back together using the Permatex Ultra Grey Seal . Laid a bead down 1/8" thick and then spread it with a 1/4" artist brush. I think I may have used 1 ounce of the Ultra Grey sealant.
Next, I decided to clean / inspect the clutch . Light surface rust on the steel plates so I cleaned them off with a green scotchbrite pad.
I don't like the way the steel plates were stamped leaving a sharp edge on the one side that acts like a chisel face and can stop the steel discs from sliding on the hub causing a dragging clutch, so out comes a flat jewelers file to clean off the burrs.
Also checked the fiber plates because they seemed thin. The service limit is 3.2mm and these are 3.4mm.
Before I order new plates - Has anyone measured the thickness of new fiber plates ??
Next, I decided to clean / inspect the clutch . Light surface rust on the steel plates so I cleaned them off with a green scotchbrite pad.
I don't like the way the steel plates were stamped leaving a sharp edge on the one side that acts like a chisel face and can stop the steel discs from sliding on the hub causing a dragging clutch, so out comes a flat jewelers file to clean off the burrs.
Also checked the fiber plates because they seemed thin. The service limit is 3.2mm and these are 3.4mm.
Before I order new plates - Has anyone measured the thickness of new fiber plates ??
Last edit: 1 day 7 hours ago by Kawboy.
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