TOPIC:

Went to the automotive machine shop where they pressed in the cylinder #3 sleeve and deglazed all the cylinders. The replaced sleeve was sticking out a tiny bit above the others, so I asked them to press it inside a bit more and make all leveled. Done. The cylinder block is ready for a bit of more cosmetic polishing, bathtub cleaning, and finally a coat of paint.

I also took the cylinder head in for service. After bead blasting I spent half an hour rinsing it in a bathtub. Still residue of beads visible here and there. So I asked them to first give it a good hot bath, remove carbon residue and make it clean.

Ready for a trip to a machine shop.



Next they will replace the chipped intake valve guide on #3 (I supplied original Kawasaki guide), and check all guides if more replacements needed. My guess is they are fine, except maybe one (I gave them two just in case).

The seats look ok but most, if not all, will need a slight grinding to get rid of the scratches. For now I just asked them for evaluation.



Last thing for now, the cylinder head will be resurfaced. It is pitted in a few places and there is no way around it.

Damn... I got a set of six new Intake valves, and instead of getting two exhaust valves - I got another two Intake valves. So, now I have 8 Intake and still 0 Exhaust. Kawasaki has Exhaust valves I think, or maybe I will order them the same eBay source I got my intakes.. Kawboy - I should had ordered the whole 12 from the get go!
I will check again how what I have looks, check the prices and see what's the best. It might be cheaper getting the two valves locally from Kawasaki. No hassle and no waiting.

Now, regarding the valve seats.... There is a thing that confuses me.

Reading the service manual, the first big part covers 1979 - 1983, then there are appendixes for 1980, 81, 82 and 83.

In the 79-83 part I read that 4 cutters are needed: one 30 degree inlet, one 45, and two 75.
In the 1981 part it says I need 6 cutters: two 32, two 45, and two 60 degrees.
There is nothing in the 1982 model part about the seats.

Should I assume my 82 model is 30, 45, and 75 degrees? Could anyone confirm?

The machine shop said they measure the angles on the valves and cut the seats accordingly. All years show the valve contact angle is 45, so no problem there. I suppose they would also measure the current seats, and use the right tool accordingly.

The seats on my bike has never been cut. The imperfections are not very deep, so minimal cutting withing service limits should make them beautiful. It is very much related to the valve clearances. I have a set of shims which came with the bike. I haven't measured them yet. My idea of doing this job would be cutting the seats withing the safe service limit, then putting all together including the camshafts, measure the clearances and getting appropriate thickness shims.

The shop told me they would put all together (I assume with current shims), and to grind the valve stems to adjust the clearances (there is a maximum grinding limit of 0.3 mm).

I would just prefer to leave the valves as they are, and install different thickness shims. I would leave grinding the valve stems as a last resort when there is no more play using the thickest shim. (shims available for use are 2.00mm - 3.20mm)

No doubt the adjustment when doing a full service is a combination of all of the above, but in my thinking I'd say first shims, then valve stem grinding, not the other way? Or perhaps it just fine, depending on the amount of adjustment required.

What do you think?

Now, regarding the valve seats.... There is a thing that confuses me.

Reading the service manual, the first big part covers 1979 - 1983, then there are appendixes for 1980, 81, 82 and 83.

In the 79-83 part I read that 4 cutters are needed: one 30 degree inlet, one 45, and two 75.
In the 1981 part it says I need 6 cutters: two 32, two 45, and two 60 degrees.
There is nothing in the 1982 model part about the seats.
I believe the info in the manuals is somewhat generic. There are carbide set cutter available which have permanently attached carbide blades and there are seat cutters out there like the "Neway cutters with replacable carbide blades which can also be moved in the cutter heads to accomodate different diameter seats. I've used the Neway cutters a lot and like them. When the blades need replacement, change the blades instead of replacing the cutter.
I also prefer using 30, 45, and 60 degree cutters and you can definately get away with 3 cutters here. The 75 degree cutter is more limited on adjustment betwen diameters due to the angle. the 60 degree is more forgiving because the angle is lower and let's face it the purpose of the under cut is to set the inner seat width. 60 degrees or 75 degrees, either will work fine.

The shop told me they would put all together (I assume with current shims), and to grind the valve stems to adjust the clearances (there is a maximum grinding limit of 0.3 mm).

I would just prefer to leave the valves as they are, and install different thickness shims. I would leave grinding the valve stems as a last resort when there is no more play using the thickest shim. (shims available for use are 2.00mm - 3.20mm)

No doubt the adjustment when doing a full service is a combination of all of the above, but in my thinking I'd say first shims, then valve stem grinding, not the other way? Or perhaps it just fine, depending on the amount of adjustment required.

What do you think?


Standard shop practice is to cut the valve faces and then tip (grind) the valve stems a couple of thou to bring the valves back within a thou of where there were. Then the seats get cut in the head and there is no adjusting other than changing the shims. What most of the shop miss is that they should be trying to give you more shim options . There is a spec in the manual dealing with this and it shows after grinding the valves and cutting the seats to place the valves in the guides and measure from the top of the valve stem to the bottom of the valve bucket pocket (note thet the valve spring seat has been removed at this point). There is a tolerance and the machine shop should be machining the parts to give you the closest to the minimum spec as possible. That way, you'll be able to use the thickest shim which will give you lots of adjustment down the road.

Standard shop practice is to cut the valve faces and then tip (grind) the valve stems a couple of thou to bring the valves back within a thou of where there were. Then the seats get cut in the head and there is no adjusting other than changing the shims. What most of the shop miss is that they should be trying to give you more shim options . There is a spec in the manual dealing with this and it shows after grinding the valves and cutting the seats to place the valves in the guides and measure from the top of the valve stem to the bottom of the valve bucket pocket (note thet the valve spring seat has been removed at this point). There is a tolerance and the machine shop should be machining the parts to give you the closest to the minimum spec as possible. That way, you'll be able to use the thickest shim which will give you lots of adjustment down the road.

Yes, I totally agree. All my valves will be new (same what you bought), so no need for checking them. My logic tells me grind seats then use appropriate shims for the correct adjustment. I would avoid grinding valve stems at this point, and leave it as the last resort adjustments in the future when no more shims available. The 0.3 mm service limit for valve stem grinding is not much.

Is there a list of all available shim sizes?

Shim sizes - Very front section of the shop manual. 2 mm - 3.20 mm in .05mm increments

Yes, I have seen this. I think I phrased the question not clearly.
I have read somewhere that not all shims are available. Maybe I am mixing thing up with another forum...
There used to be a shim exchange 'program' between Vmax owners. Also, there is a person who (at least used to) send a box with good shims for fitting, then you would mail it back to him. There was a discussion about good quality precise shims, because some offered from different sources, including eBay, were proving to be lacking in precision. Also, some sizes were rare to find, some more common.

I was wondering if there is a known reputable source of precise shims for our bikes. I haven't asked Kawasaki yet, so I am green on this subject. Just researching ahead of the current valve job.