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Cylinder sleeve removal / replacement 3 months 1 week ago #31998

  • Kawboy
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Fusion 360 is free and doesn't take to long to learn and theres loads of YouTube programs to help you on your way.

And I can't  read the measurements very well sorry.
Geeez !! Fusion 360 = Autodesk = Autocad !! When I got my first computer back in 1983 (that's a minute ago) I got my hands on Autocad and had a go with it. I guess if you were in the engineering end of the business, you had to learn and use it, but as a part timer wanting to just produce a clean drawing, it was cumbersome. Along came Autodesk and it was more friendly, but again, for the part timer, it was a hairpulling experience.
I've uploaded Fusion 360 and played with it for a couple of minutes and drew a cylinder and much more user friendly than either Autodesk or Autocad.

Thanks Youngblood for the tip. I'll have a go at doing the cylinder drawing using Fusion 360 and see what I can produce and share.
Cheers,
KB

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Cylinder sleeve removal / replacement 3 months 1 week ago #31999

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From Gert Roewer: Looking at the cylinders from the top. #1 cylinder is offset to the left, ie. "Away " from #2. Cylinder #3 is offset to the right, ie. also "Away " from #2. Cylinder #4 is offset to the left ie. "Away " from #5. Cylinder #6 is offset to the right from #5 also being moved "Away " from #5. The purpose of all this is to increase the bore spacing to allow larger diameter sleeves to be fitted and still have sufficient metal on the deck between the cylinders to facilitate sealing by the head gasket. Off set is 1.5mm.
1642cc block in photo
The first photo shows a standard bore and you can see that the cylinder bores leave a 10mm? deck between the adjacent cylinders. When he pushes out the bores to 69mm, that deck between the cylinders drops to less than 5mm. I see this as asking for trouble

I have a friend who was racing in the Outlaw class, pushing a Ford Mustang through the 1/4 mile at 6.03 seconds using a small block Ford motor naturally aspirated and NOS. They had pushed  out the motor to 503 cu.in. and a similar setup with the thin deck between the cylinders. More often than not, they fried the head gasket between the cylinders. They always went to the track with a dozen head gaskets and had to replace the gaskets between runs. Racing is racing and pushing the limits on mechanical parts is what they do.

This whole exercise for me was done for a number of reasons.
First I wanted to see how difficult it was to exchange the wet liners and document that experience for site users.

Second, I wanted to inspect the out wall of the liner to see what kind of damage 40 years had on it and what could / should be done with respect to maintenance and document that.

 Third- if you found yourself in a situation where you needed to bore out , hone and install new pistons, is there another option? Pistons could cost you anywhere from $250USD - $900 for custom forged pistons. Another option is to explore other piston options like the KZ650 pistons or the KZ750 pistons and then go with maybe new cylinder sleeves. So far, that option will end up in the $1000 - $2000 dollars depending on machine shop service charges and custom head gasket.

I personally have decided to go back to stock and I'll plateau hone the sleeves and install new rings. My cylinders are in great shape Except the groove for oiling are nowhere to be seen so a quick hone with 120 grit stones , followed with a quick cleanup with 400 grit stones , will put some oiling grooves in the cylinders and leave a smooth finish for the new rings to quickly break in to.

I also want to address what I see as an issue with the bottom edge of the cylinder. The bottom edge was machine broke with a 45 deg. cut to assist with ring installation. How many times have the guys reported the difficulty in installing the cylinder block and cutting their fingers or fighting the job for hours on end taking a chance of chipping the chromium plating on the face of the rings? . That edge on the cylinder could be modified rather quickly when the cylinder is off and I want to document that modification.

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Cylinder sleeve removal / replacement 3 months 1 week ago #32000

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Kawboy
Stick with Fusion 360 it’s a great program I use a lot for designing parts and using it for 3d printing, I brought this wreck of a 1300 and spares to see what could be done with it, the last 15 years has been 750 air cooled turbo engines I have one more extreme build with 880 pistons and liners thought the 1300 would be different? can’t beat a 6 with megaphones the sound is awesome, well on my list to change: clutch, suspension, electrics, fuel injection, chain drive, turbo and reduce it weight? so far clutch is sorted, chain drive nearly there now the turbo is well on its way thanks to this forum looks like 66mm pistons and liners. I’m lucky enough to have a workshop kitted out so can do most of the work myself.

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Cylinder sleeve removal / replacement 3 months 1 week ago #32001

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Kawboy
Stick with Fusion 360 it’s a great program I use a lot for designing parts and using it for 3d printing, I brought this wreck of a 1300 and spares to see what could be done with it, the last 15 years has been 750 air cooled turbo engines I have one more extreme build with 880 pistons and liners thought the 1300 would be different? can’t beat a 6 with megaphones the sound is awesome, well on my list to change: clutch, suspension, electrics, fuel injection, chain drive, turbo and reduce it weight? so far clutch is sorted, chain drive nearly there now the turbo is well on its way thanks to this forum looks like 66mm pistons and liners. I’m lucky enough to have a workshop kitted out so can do most of the work myself.
Ok. Now I have to put on my drool bib. I had access to a fully equipped shop at the nuclear plant. I couldn't ask for anything more ( maybe a Sunnen SV 35). There are a couple of race engine machine shops within 50 Km of my house and I thought I might offer to trade work time for personal machine time. Steffen Engineering and Gord Bush Performance. Gord Bush broke away from Leiter some time ago and started his own business. Leiter teamed up with Steffen Engineering. Some may remember Art the Dart Robbins back in the 1980's who ran against the factory teams and blew the doors off of them in the AMA Nationals riding a Prepped Leitner Bush GS1000

I'd love to see you start a topic of your build so we can watch the transformation. Sounds like you have significant experience and I enjoy watching the next generation carry on where we old farts left off.
The following user(s) said Thank You: dcarver220b

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Cylinder sleeve removal / replacement 3 months 1 week ago #32002

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Fusion 360 is free and doesn't take to long to learn and theres loads of YouTube programs to help you on your way.

And I can't  read the measurements very well sorry.
Geeez !! Fusion 360 = Autodesk = Autocad !! When I got my first computer back in 1983 (that's a minute ago) I got my hands on Autocad and had a go with it. I guess if you were in the engineering end of the business, you had to learn and use it, but as a part timer wanting to just produce a clean drawing, it was cumbersome. Along came Autodesk and it was more friendly, but again, for the part timer, it was a hairpulling experience.
I've uploaded Fusion 360 and played with it for a couple of minutes and drew a cylinder and much more user friendly than either Autodesk or Autocad.

Thanks Youngblood for the tip. I'll have a go at doing the cylinder drawing using Fusion 360 and see what I can produce and share.
Cheers,
KB
My oldest son graduated as a mechanical engineer, although he asks me for help to grease the chain of his motorcycle.
I have taught him the topic of this thread and he tells me that in Europe the program that is implemented, from the universities, is Autocad, it is a more complete program than the rest.
RUN LIKE THE WIND¡¡¡

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Cylinder sleeve removal / replacement 3 months 1 week ago #32004

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In our universities it is handed out free on certain courses but does not have all the modules, good enough to start with.

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