TOPIC:

Yaegunp wrote:

Kawboy wrote: Short and Sweet. Tube type tires actually have pinholes in the side wall to vent the air which gets caught in beetween the tube and tire/rim so running a tube type tire in a tubeless application won't work. I came across this back in the early 1970"s when tubeless tires were just starting to come into the market place. I had a customer come in to the shop with 4 new tires mounted on his car and all 4 were leaking air. Perplexed, we took the wheel assembly over to the dunk tank and looked for bubbles and sure enough each wheel assembly was leaking through about a dozen pinholes in the sidewalls. Called the tire manufacturer and got the tube type tire and design requirement to have these vent holes to release the air trapped between the tube and the tire/rim.

There are a number of other design diferences and this site might be better at explaning it if you want "more information"

okigihan.blogspot.ca/p/aircraft-tires-an...-aircraft-tires.html

Bottom line, you can't run tube type tires without a tube.

You might find this interesting reading Kawboy. It's all about tyres and I'd be interested in what you think

Design Differences Between Car and Motorcycle Rim/Tire

You're right it is a VERY INTERESTING read. I'm still enjoying it but at this point I think I have enough info to "give my opinion" Realize that I am not an engineer but after supervising 9 engineers at one time, I've learned to take the time to understand the engineering facts as presented and apply to the problem at hand and come to a conclusion.

The facts clearly stated in the article is that under no circumstance should a motorcycle tire be mounted on a automotive car/truck rim and neither should a car/truck tire be mounted on a motorcycle rim.

The facts also indicate that car tires and motorcycle tires are designed for completely different load specifics (lateral/ longitudinal etc.)

So the only question for me here is which of the mechanical forces lateral /longitudinal etc. morre aptly apply. I would suggest a motorcycle with a sidcar or a trike would tend to react more like a automobile than a motorcycle since the lean or tilt actions in corning have been eliminated for the most part. I would think that a car tire would be a better choice for the 3 wheeled vehicles provided that automotive rims were used.

So now that I've said that, I'm curious as to what Can Am put on their Spyders. From what I've found the Spyder tires are "rated" as a motorcycle tire although the profile of most the available aftermarket tires are a flat tread design. The Kenya brand has a slight curvautre to it but certainly not the typical radius of a motorcycle tire.

Pete one option is to use a 13in rim that many small cars have and use a 155 x 60 x 13 tyre from Nangkang. They are only 10mm larger in diameter than the 10in mini you show. I use them on all the motorcycle trailers I build and have got really good mileage from them (I have never had to replace one)and they can be run flat without damage due to the light load. I ran 60km into Broken Hill at 60-70kph and had no damage. Actually it was barely noticeable that there was no pressure.

Yaegunp wrote:
You might find this interesting reading Kawboy. It's all about tyres and I'd be interested in what you think

Design Differences Between Car and Motorcycle Rim/Tire

That article has to be one of the most copied and pasted articles on the net. It's all interesting information but there's a ton of actual evidence to prove that using a car tyre on a bike can actually work.

This guy was the guy who convinced me I wasn't going to spontaneously combust if I put a car tyre on my Intruder:

lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

And here's a Delphi forum specifically for darksiders:

forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webta...ng%2F&gid=2120084868

Using a car tyre in a sidecar application is really a non event IMO. It's been done many times.

lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html - Another great article Hillsy, Thanks for sharing. It obviously contravenes all normal thinking BUT this guy has acted very much like a test pilot and discusses all aspects from mounting installing to mileage expected and everything in between, Can't argue with his findings. My first thought when I got to the middle of his report was that he probably doesn't ride hard, spending more time upright than down in the twisties, but apparently he does ride hard. Now he doesn't suggest that the car tires he's tested are better than the motorcycle tires in handling and it looks like the advantage is the tire wear with little to no major issues with handling. He does make a note that he would not put the car tire on the front of his bike. Personally, I get a little nervous when I start running different tread patterns, especially when I'm riding on wet roads. I'm not sure that I would like to be a test pilot on a 700 lb. bike and go and throw it throuth the twistis and take the chance of grinding off my leg in a grinding crash with the bike on top of me. But my days of riding hard are over.

He did note that the rim on the Valyrie is not that dissimilar from a car rim. From the drawings provided in the previous post, the rim design big difference appears to be whewre the bead lock sits in relationship to the bead flange and on the motorcycle rim, the bead lock is closer to the flange and holds the car tire bead in a position that doesn't allow the bead to seat properly. Maybe the Valkyrie bead lock is more like the car rims? and maybe the tire bead deforms enough to accomodate the difference in the rim. It would be very difficult to determine just exactly what's happening with this combination.

We digress here. Paul is asking what wheel (tire /rim) to put on his sidecar. I would think the only concern would be in supporting the weight and not necessarily any concerns regarding handling. It would be nice to hear from Trikebldr here. He's the Master of all things 3 wheeled.

Dunno if it helps to determine the right thing:

regulation in Germany (you know, the are very strict about regulations) allow car wheels on the sidecars which then may be equipped with the corresponding tyres. Of course not every wheel, but some that are suitable. Needs to be verified by an engineer (of course not by any, but the right ones according to the regulations).

That's why the sidecar guys are able to use the "cheaper" car-tyres whereas the two-wheelers still need to buy the expensive ones. In some occasions the regulations (here they are, again) will allow only certain types or even brands !

The US is much more liberal in that- you are the lucky guys.

regards

Holger

RickG wrote: Pete one option is to use a 13in rim that many small cars have and use a 155 x 60 x 13 tyre from Nangkang. They are only 10mm larger in diameter than the 10in mini you show. I use them on all the motorcycle trailers I build and have got really good mileage from them (I have never had to replace one)and they can be run flat without damage due to the light load. I ran 60km into Broken Hill at 60-70kph and had no damage. Actually it was barely noticeable that there was no pressure.

I feel really embarrassed to show photos of my bike on here, all these other bikes are clean and shiny, chrome sparkling, leading links on all the sidecar rigs, my old girl sits out in the blazing Aussie sun day in and day out at my works car park, the tank paint is fading and the sidecar fiberglass has "spiderweb" cracks in places from hail damage over the many years, so I guess internally she is good, it's just the "makeup" that's faded and she's showing her age. Speaking of running a flat tyre, a week or so ago I was walking over to my garage and noticed the rear tyre on the bike was looking a bit weird, sort of spread out on the bottom a bit more than it should be, thought i'd better check the tyre pressure, low and behold the gauge showed 5 PSI !!!, hmmm I thought she was a bit squishy in the rear , wonder how long it's been like that, heck I've even been "flying the chair" with it like that, put some air in it and the bike now looks right, it sits a bit higher that it has, oh well guess i'd better check it a bit more often , just goes to show the 13 stands up well when you have a "training wheel" on the side