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Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 3 months 1 day ago #32058

  • Kawboy
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Everything about circlips is determined by the shaft diameter the circlip is being installed on.
The shaft diameter of the water pump at the impeller is 11mm.
Referring to the chart we need a D1400-11 circlip
The free inside diameter of that circlip is 10.2mm
The groove diameter is suppose to be 10.5mm
the thickness of the circlip is 1mm
The groove width is supposed to be 1.10mm

This is where things got interesting.
I measured the groove diameter of my shaft at 10.3mm when it should be 10.5mm The groove was .2mm undersized
I measured the free inside diameter of the circlip at 10mm and it should be 10.2mm The circlip is .2mm undersized as well.
Bottom line- the circlip available from Zed Parts is a perfect fit for the water pump shaft even though it is not a standard spec.

If you spring a 10mm circlip on to a 10.3mm groove ( a difference of .3mm diameter), the ears of the circlip will open up by (diameter difference x π) = .3 x 3.14 = .94mm (.037")
If the free space between the ears was .015" and we add .037" we end up with a gap between the ears of .052" (1.3mm) and that's measurable. So you could measure that gap and know for sure that the clip is on properly.

One other thing I should mention is that the Stainless steel circlips are softer than a spring steel circlip and they don't like being yielded i.e. opened up so much that they won't return to original diameter. A standard circlip will be more apt to return to size if opened up more so than the Stainless steel circlips. In order to do it properly, I would suggest having a brand new set of circlip plier tips on your circlip pliers that fit the holes of the circlip being installed so you don't have to fight the circlip when installing.

And that's all I got to say about that and THAT should make everyone happy

 
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Last edit: by Kawboy.

Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 3 months 1 day ago #32059

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2024-01-17-  Kz1300 Water Pp Circlip Done Right

Gaining experience, knowldege, can be painful. You make mistakes. You damage stuff. It's the price, simple. Having someone, uhh, 'guide' you in the process is invaluable. Thank You KB (Kawboy from kz1300.com) for that.

Learned a long time ago that if someone is willing to coach you, someone who knows more than you do, then fricking listen up.KB mentioned the circlip still did not look correct. He was right.

Here's the SS circlip removed, deformed. KB said SS doesn't have the same 'rebound' ability as carbon steel, it's easy to over 'stretch'. But I was careful when installing. Just enough spread to clear shaft OD. 
From Zed parts also purchased a CS clip..
Inspected the groove using a feeler gauge. It was clean, clear, no burrs around 360 degrees.

Installed the clip without impeller. Clearance between 'ears' installed and on bench was identical - 1.73 mm. 
Yet when trying to install circlip with impeller on, the gap was much wider. Hmm.

Looked at impeller seating area. It got chewed up a bit after it spun free on shaft. Is this causing the impeller to not 
seat fully on shaft, thus causing circlip to not seat?


 

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Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 3 months 1 day ago #32060

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As previoulsy stated, learning can cost.

Notice the circlip ear spread. Much more than with circlip installed w/o impeller. Not SAT.
What would KB do?

Tried installing impeller 180 degrees out. Maybe then it would 'seat' better allowing better circlip position.

Finally. Installed, the ears are now at 1.73 mm spread. The same as when circlip was installed sans impeller.

Oh happy day!

 

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Last edit: by dcarver220b.

Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 3 months 1 day ago #32061

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To put my ugly face out there..

BAF installed. (Big Assed Fan).

Got radiator hung too. But now, as you can tell, it's dark. Got 3 infrared heat lamps glowing, 2 LED lamps fired up.. And... it's time to quit. tired. back hurts. Call it good for now.
KB stated about working under adverse conditons leads to faulty work. I agree. The best I could do for now, before my shop is built... Added 2 big LED lights, found a better pair of glasses, added two more heat lamps. And wore a very nerdy head lamp. LOL.

On a serious note. Fully appreciate KB's honesty, advice, mentoring. I'm just a freaking hack trying to learn. When KB presents ideas, circlip charts, etc.. You bet I'm downloading and saving that info. Thank You KB.Don 

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Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 3 months 1 day ago #32062

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Glad to help when I can. Better to get it right rather than find yourself on the side of the road with a dead engine from overheating because of a stupid circlip "not in the groove"
I am concerned about the appearance of the seal face, now that I see it cleaned up. As mentioned before, seal faces are lapped to less than 2 light bands and when looking at a seal face and rolling / rocking it around in the sunlight, you should see a polished mirror like finish on the face both the carbon face and the ceramic face. Your white ceramic seal face is tarnished with a black impression from the carbon face, so I wonder if the lubricant you put on the seal face originally, damaged the carbon face imparting carbon on to the ceramic face. At this point I question whether the seal will actually do its job and seal. I have seen worse when tearing a pump apart for rebuild that wasn't done for a leaking reason but......

I hate being an armchair critic but it's a learning experience and isn't that why we are here? During my Ontario Power Generation apprenticeship, one of my fundamental courses was "mechanical seals" 6 week course 40 hours a week to learn about mechanical seals and the maintenance of them. It's a lot of classroom and hands on seal lapping / fitting. For all you guys out there, replacing a mechanical seal seems like a easy enough job. Hell, it's so simple they put it in the Service Manual. Now you won't see this job in any automobile service manual and why?? Because it's specialized work and not as simple as banging in a new seal in a water pump

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Last edit: by Kawboy.

Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 3 months 1 day ago #32063

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you should see a polished mirror like finish on the face both the carbon face and the ceramic face. Your white ceramic seal face is tarnished with a black impression from the carbon face, so I wonder if the lubricant you put on the seal face originally, damaged the carbon face imparting carbon on to the ceramic face.

Calculated risk to use 'old' seal vs. brand new never out of the box seal. FWIW, the OEM seal came out looking like this.
..and if this one leaks, well, I have the spare and now have the knowledge.

Today is last day before 4 or 5 rainy days. Will tighten clamps, add water, do a good luck no leak dance....

Think I'll buy 4 more seals just for inventory. Get them while they are available - pretty soon my KZ inventory should = 4. 

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