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Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 2 months 3 weeks ago #31801

  • Kawboy
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If you care to learn something about snap rings read on. If not you're done.

As a Millwright in the nuclear plant, I got exposed to all sorts of information The "Machinery's Handbook" was our bible. Everything you needed for doing your job could be found in that book. it's about 5" x 8" and about 1800 pages of general info. If I needed to machine a shaft and put a groove in it for a snap ring, all the info required to machine that groove could be found in the book. In this case rather than dig out the book and photocopy the page, I found the same information on a manufacturer's website.
In this case when talking about the snap ring on the water pump I'm going to guess for the sake of using an example, that the shaft diameter for the impeller is 10mm. According to the chart, The snap ring part # would be SH39  The shaft diameter is .394" ( 10mm)  The groove diameter is .369" and the snap ring free diameter is .354" diameter.  that means the interference fit is .369" - .354" = .015" . So if we "do the math"  if we have to expand the ring by .015" diameter ( the difference between the groove diameter and the free ring diameter), then the spread between the ears of the ring would be .015" x π = .047" when installed on the shaft. (Just to give you an idea of what to expect to see if properly installed.)

  
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Last edit: by Kawboy.

Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 2 months 3 weeks ago #31802

  • dcarver220b
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Did you purchase your drain pan from Z1300.de as well? I was wondering where to get one.
Ted, I'm sorry, don't understand your question? "Drain Pan"? 

If you mean the 'muffin' pan for parts, well, I can send one your way! 

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Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 2 months 3 weeks ago #31803

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It looks like an Allen Millyard V12 drain pan, so either Don's got "big block plans" or I'm way off base.  
Or maybe Don's going to go even more special and out do Allan with a W12 special (3 cylinder x 4 bank) . Either way, he's got the drain pan sorted out.

Maybe Don could give us a sneak peek at the coolant pick up tube?????

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Last edit: by Kawboy.

Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 2 months 3 weeks ago #31807

  • Ted
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Yes, I saw the muffin pan and was making a joke; I use a cake pan as a drain pan myself.  Actually, to use a compartmentalized muffin pan for parts is pretty smart.  MIne go into one bowl.
1981 KZ1300, '98 Suzuki GSF1200S, '80 Honda CT110, '11 Honda CBR250, '75 Honda CL360, '00 Honda XR100R
Speak softly and mount a fast bike.

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Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 2 months 1 week ago #31879

  • dcarver220b
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Well, sadly, honestly, I must admit the final outcome is total and complete failure. 

Next morning, post radiator re-fill, wetness and drops at lower hose clamp, block side. Attempted to take pics and video, but it didn't really show much. Well crap. Also water from weep hole. Sigh. Sigh. Sigh. Leak is about 1 big drop every 2 minutes. Enough to soak lift top and drip off lift onto concrete.

2 days later, it's all dry. Why? Did enough water drip out that head pressure is now inadequate for it to leak? Maybe the hose finally conformed to the nipple?

It's hard to tell where the leak is.. There's a 14mm bolt head at pump bottom, front side. It appears to have a copper washer. Let's start there. Nope, ain't gonna happen. It won't budge, and if it does, certainly damage will occur. Best to leave enough alone.

Let's reposition hose clamp, re-tighten clamp. Drain the expensive Evans coolant, add straight distilled water for testing purposes.

Let's start the gurl. Huh, what's the click click click only noise from start solenoid? Check battery connections, clean, retighten. Click Click. Battery resting voltage 12.8 Vdc. Load test battery using my super-duper load testing device. (2 H4 bulbs wired for lo/hi beam). Battery is solid.

Handlebar start button? Disassemble, split the clam shells. It's close to dark now, no lights. Spray some DeOxit into switch internals. 

Whirrrr Whirrr, no click click click. Well, most of the time. Improvement. Not yet good, but good enough for now.

Remove plugs. Connect plugs to sparking wires, ground plugs.

Let's spin the engine in 15 second bursts, checking for good spark, develop oil pressure before combusting fossil fuel, let the water pp seal spin a few rev's.

Fetch tank, drain old fuel, add fresh juice, install tank. Hmmm, Motion Pro fuel hose is brittle but it will work for now. Bike has sat for > 9 months now, under a cover, on an outside lift.

Install tank, connect fuel hose, turn Pingle on. Let's start her up.

Wait! First wipe CermaKote headers down with lacquer thinner to remove any oily fingerprints. Don't want the prints to etch in after heat.

Vroom Vroom! She starts right up and sounds better than ever. Happy happy that ignition coil wiring is correct. 

Run for about 3 minutes, raise bike, and ACCK.

The weep hole is weeping like a big dog. Much more than the old seal. Sigh. Lower hose clamps are dry.

"If I could just get it back to where I first started, I'll be happy" is running through my cranium scareabellium.

Then I notice a LOT of water dripping down radiator RHS and onto bike frame. Well shit. F@#k Me. 

It's dark now, starting to rain. Secure the work area, put tail between legs, go back to house, defeated. Have not yet followed up.

Sooo, KawBoy expressed technical displeasure with me applying a light coat of Lubriplate cream on seal surfaces. I'm sure KB isn't not at all surprised with the results.

I also recall reading another thread where KB said there were 6 leak paths with this design. Will find and read again, apply new knowledge.

Read on the Aussie part site (from Bucko's thread IIRC?) that sealant should be installed on the metal OD that presses into the block?

Read on another post that some have had issues with 'pattern' seals as compared to OEM.. that maybe the manufacturing is off, slightly?

Is it possible that running straight water for leak detection purposes isn't the hot idea? That perhaps 50/50 EG/Water mix has greater density, less leakage?

My next plan is to order two new seals.. One from Germany, one from Aussie land, compare the two, then try again.

Sigh. 

I guess not all we do results in success.

Yep. Right now I feel gut punched, but I'll persevere to persevere. 

D

 

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Installing water pp cover and thermostat... hints/tips 2 months 1 week ago #31883

  • Kawboy
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So I'll recap and save you the trouble of finding the leak paths etc.

First, most likely the primary leak you have is the Lubriplate on the seal faces. Seal faces are lapped to 2 light bands using a monochromatic light and an optical flat. 1.32 min video on using a monochromatic light and an optical flat on a seal face.  There is nothing smaller than 2 light bands and that includes a hydrogen molecule. Knowing that those faces are flat and nothing can get past them, you have to accept the fact that there's no lubricant lubricating the faces 'cause it just can't get in there.
You need to pull it all apart again and clean the seal faces with methyl hydrate and put back together.

The other suspect leak point I would check is the o-ring on the end of the pump shaft. Coolant could leak between the impeller and the shaft.

Then there's the seal point between the mechanical seal and the mechanical seal retainer. As I remember it, you heated the retainer and froze the mechanical seal then pressed it together so I'll assume you didn't put any sealer on it before assembling like RTV sealant, as per the FSM. I have a preference to Permatex High Temp RTV sealant. Never fails me and when disassembling for parts replacement, Permatex cleans off like a dream. 
A millwright will tell you that when assembling a joint like this, you need to apply the sealant to both the housing and the seal, since as you press the parts together, the sealant will be pressed out of the area you're trying to seal. if you were to put the sealant on just the seal and press it in the housing, the sealant would never get in to the area you're trying to seal because the edge of the housing would scrape the sealant off.
Good luck.
KB

 

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