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Stupid mistake... 10 months 2 weeks ago #31491

  • scotch
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He said it was on center stand, Sir Scotch!

That's why I added,  "For what it's worth "    By the response....it was !

If the oil-pan had that much fuel in it  then the Petcock/fuel-valve has a serious issue.

And.....for what it's worth  .....  IMHO the OEM fuel valve has always received an undeserved bad rep.
The design of the OEM fuel valve is brilliantly simple.
 Their failure (leaking) was not due to a poor design.  It was as a result of the tanks rusting and clogging the internal filter.  
SOLUTION ?  Remove the internal filter in favor of an inline filter. This unwittingly left the fuel valve with no protection from the abrasive rust particulate.   By the time a decision was made to "coat the tank"  it was too late.  The mating surfaces of the cone and valve body had already been ground to oblivion. 
If the scratches aren't too severe the cone can be lapped into the body and a total seal can be achieved, again.  I had to do this years ago when a piece of debris? damaged the mating surfaces
I'm still using the original (43 yrs.) and it doesn't leak/drip or weep when OFF. 
A new valve with "Prime" ? .  Do the "Choke Air" mod. and eliminate the hard-start frustration.
As for the apparent issue so may seem to have with  remembering to turn the fuel OFF when not riding. 
Good Lord !       Develop the "habit"   It's "Part of the Experience"

 



 
1980 KZ 1300 sr# KZT30A-009997
Always High - Know Fear !

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Last edit: by scotch.

Stupid mistake... 10 months 2 weeks ago #31493

  • Kawboy
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Wondering if I should drain the carbs. Might have too much fule in them from having the petcock on prime? 
On the vacuum actuated petcocks, when there's a lack of intake vacuum, the petcock remains closed. So in the event that your carbs are empty and the bike won't start, you need to get the petcock to open and flow fuel into the carbs. That's what the "prime" feature does. It manually opens the fuel flow to the carbs.

Once the fuel is flowing, it's up to the carb floats to shut off the fuel flow once the fuel level has been met. Now if by chance the float needles are leaking by, it's possible that the carb will overfill and then fuel will rise up the Main jet and enter the venturi of the carb and eventually find it's way into the cylinders with open intake valves and it's possible to hydraulically lock one or 2 cylinders and bend the connecting rods. That's why it's critical to ensure the fuel is shut off when not riding especially if you're one to use the side stand when parking because the carb floats can bind when sitting parked on an angle. So if you use the stock petcock, make it a habit to shut off the fuel. If you can't get in the habit, then a vacuum operated fuel valve is for you.

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Stupid mistake... 10 months 2 weeks ago #31497

  • Whiskey1300
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Definitely a lesson learned. If the spark plugs are clean and I still have no luck… what’s the next step? Last time I road it, it didn’t overheat, I did NOT hear any unusual noises. Do I manually turn the motor to see if I’m potential in an “oh f*k”situation?
-Cheers
Whiskey-1300

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Last edit: by Whiskey1300.

Stupid mistake... 10 months 2 weeks ago #31498

  • Kawboy
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So I did something dumb. I noticed what appeared to be a small amount of oil on the bottom left side of the carburetors. Could have a valve seal issue? So I looked at the sight glass on the crankcase and I noticed the oil level was below the minimum fill level. So I added oil until it appeared to be at the appropriate level. Hit the starter and heard a glugging sound. I let off the starter before the engine turned over and noticed oil draining on the ground from the breather hose. I looked at the air filter and noticed oil had come up into the air box. The oil did not make it onto the air filter itself. I assume I just added too much oil?   But Im confused as to why the sight glass showed the level so low?

I plan on doing a full oil change tomorrow and cleaning out the air box. Anything I need to inspect before I try to start her back up? Should I be worried about any kind of damages?
This is one of those topics where the information keeps going round and round and when this happens I have to go back to the beginning and figure out what started the topic, where we are and what to do next. So.....

You went to start the bike and go for a ride and "Noticed oil drops on the left side of the bottom of the Carburetors and thought you might have a valve seal problem."
1st question. At this point was the bike on the side stand ? That would explain what you saw on the bottom left side of the carburetors
2nd question- At this point did you put the bike up on the center stand and check the oil level  and found the level low?  if you did this and didn't allow 5 minutes for the oil level in the crankcase and sight glass to settle down with cold oil, it would explain why you thought the level was low.

Then you report that "you topped up the oil until it shows correct in the sight glass" if you did this then it's possible that you overfilled the crankcase with oil because cold oil takes forever to settle out and show the correct level in the sight glass.

Next you report that you attempted to start the bike and heard a glugging sound at which point you stopped trying the starter. SMART !!
Then you noticed oil coming out of the air box and thought you may have overfilled the crankcase and you decided to change the oil and clean out the air box.

3rd question.- Did you do an oil change or oil and filter change ? 
4th question  - Was the oil full of gasoline?
This is where you might suspect that the crankcase got filled with gasoline and that would explain how the crank case vent "glugged" oil into the air box . in order for this to happen a few things would have had to happen. First- the fuel was left on and you said that you left it on prime so - possible. Second the floats in the carbs didn't shutoff the fuel flow. Possible maybe even likely if the bike was left on the side stand. Third the time factor-For all this to have happened, the carb floats got stuck open, the gas flowed down the intakes and into the cylinders with open intake valves and filled the cylinders with gas and that gas passed by the piston rings and into the crankcase. All this takes time.
5th question - If you did an oil change only, how much oil did you put back in ? if I remember right you have a 1980 KZ1300. Oil capacity of 4.5 liters  with a oil filter change (which is 4.75 U.S. quarts). Subtract maybe a 1/3 of a quart if you didn't change the filter.

At this point I would remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over on starter. if the cylinders spit out gasoline, you had a hydraulically locked cylinder (s) and may have bent a connecting rod but that usually only happens when a cylinder is hydraulically locked and the engine actually fires. I don't think it's possible to have the starter by itself create enough energy to overcome a hydraulically locked cylinder and bend a rod. 
So pull the plugs and turn the engine over on starter and let us know what you find and we'll take it from there.
KB













 
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Last edit: by Kawboy.

Stupid mistake... 10 months 1 week ago #31516

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It’s been a crazy week. I had hoped to get into the bike by now but, Hurricane season is upon us. We’re also finishing up some renovations at the distillery and planning a grand re-opening. Oh… we bought a house so I’m packing like a crazy person for the move. Lots of great stuff but I’d rather have the bike running .

This week is slowing down so I’m dedicating time to the bike. 

I haven’t checked for the hydro lock yet but I did clean the plugs. They had obvious oil residue on 4 of 6 plugs Tested for spark. Got sparks…. But they seem to be a little weak. (Have about a quarter charge on the battery. So got that one the charger tonight.) Tried to turn her over. It quickly sounds like it wants to turn. Then all I get is the  “rah rah” from the starter. Ignition coils?

 
To answer your questions below…

Q1: Yes the bike was on the side stand at this point. (I normally leave it on the side but I am doing center stand going forward.)

Q2: I put the bike on the center stand to check the oil. And the level seemed visibly very low. 

Q3: Just the oil. Normally I always replace the filter during an oil change but that filter had less than 300 miles on it.

Q4: There was a faint gasoline smell to the oil. Not an in your face “whoa this smells like gas”. Just a hint.

Q5: I put just over 4qts of new oil back in.


Ill update tomorrow after the hydraulic lock test. 

thank you!
-Cheers
Whiskey-1300
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Last edit: by Whiskey1300.

Stupid mistake... 10 months 1 week ago #31518

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So after a full charge on the battery… It barely started twice. Then it immediately died out. Thinking I might have more of an electrical issue? Going to grab some ether and see if I can get it to turn. 
-Cheers
Whiskey-1300

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