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Alternative ignition system 4 years 4 months ago #25530

  • Daro
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So it has been one riding season since i have build and tested new ignition system for my kawa. The reason behind was that numerous problems like for example bogging off idle missing on idle or eve difficulty starting the bike due to weak spark, not forgetting high price for original igniter or Dyna coils etc and energy consuming current limiting resistor we all know. So here i was, the DIY bloke from around the corner on the mission making his own brew igniting system. The first idea was to build from scratch but i scrap this because of problems related to longevity of such system (humidity, vibration etc.) and current sensing resistor to set the dwell time properly all of it would have been just not robust enough for the task. So i decided to use some of that ready made ignition modules, but from about two and half zillion models i hat to find and use only one, hmm not exactly a easy task but i have managed. The purpose of this writing is to share the experience i gained. First thing was to find out what sort of electronics was used on bikes and cars in the era after end of seventies but before modern ecu have been borne. I manadge to find some of the old ignition module schematics and also some of the more modern once. For the second one they have been some similarity, the L484 for magnetic pickup, L497 for hall effect sensor or 3334 chip also for magnetic pickup. Ignition pickup system was to be the one on the motorcycle without rebuilding it so hall effect chip was no go, leaving me with 3334 and 484 chips where i could only buy the second one at the time. And so it was the L484 was the ultimate winner !!!
Now pictures from thinking than.



Second photo probably inside of the OKI MPS-200 module fitted on many hondas but i'm not sure.

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Alternative ignition system 4 years 4 months ago #25532

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So i left the schematics and moved to ready made solution. Here are the pictures of the chips used in different modules.



03SKV906 - using MC3334 chip and D1071 transistor



Beru ZM056 - using L484 chip and undefined transistor



Hella 5DA 006 623-051 using some sort of Chinese chip and BU941 transistor



Huco 13-8001 using L484 chip and BUB323 transistor

I started to build the test equipment to check the dwell times and compatibility to kawasaki magnetic pickup.
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Alternative ignition system 4 years 4 months ago #25535

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Lots of respect for this project undertaking ! Let us know how it works-out !
1980 KZ 1300 sr# KZT30A-009997
Always High - Know Fear !
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Alternative ignition system 4 years 4 months ago #25538

  • Daro
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Hi Scotch, Great that you join the conversation !!! So i continue, to the tools i used, some of the stuff i made my self, you know i got this DIY weakness :woohoo: . The most important was to be able to generate output wave identical to the one coming from pickup coils. I have build "the rig" made out of kawasaki pickup coils i believe its from Kawasaki KZ650-H2, at any rate the coils it self are identical to the one from KZ1300, and so its the output signal when using timing rotor from KZ1300, that's important because its shape and the way the holes are drilled in it have impact on the form of the wave. Whole thing its propelled by small dc motor. Also i made pressure chamber to be able fire the spark in to 10 bar of compressed air to simulate conditions in combustion chamber at shortly before TDC, and the only difference is that there is no hydrocarbons present inside for obvious reason. The whole spectacle is being displayed on the oscilloscope screen.





This is how i test different coils and ignition modules. Key elements generating wave are taken from the KZ1300 engine.



I aim to have the pressure at 10 Bar inside to rich maximum resistance of the air in order to create difficulty to ionize the spark, it also affects the firing line of the spark.



Last but not list, the oscilloscope. Its digital osci so i can freeze the wave and expand to see the details better.
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Alternative ignition system 4 years 4 months ago #25541

  • stocktoy
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This looks just like a HEI module from a General Motors ign from the late 70's - 80's
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Alternative ignition system 4 years 4 months ago #25544

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Stocktoy yeah they all HEI modules, they look the same or at least very similar to each other from outside construction because they were fitted inside of the distributor very often (but not all of theme), even some of theme have no enclosure only pcb and connections. I was at the time first fully integrated high end system fitted inside of the ignition distributor delivering high energy ignition compered to conventional breaker system ans so it gained the name HEI. However the internals vary, some are made for internal triggering fitted on board like for example in Lucas DAJ 106, other were fitted near the distributor Beru ZM010 in Lada its a hall effect unit also later power amplifier units like this Bosh 227-100-203 but with it we move towards systems fitted with modern ECU.



That's the part internally triggered



And here example of magnetic triggered unit and power amplifier only. The second one have no controls what soever and must be controlled by ECU for example EMU Black ECU for instance if used on custom build. Actually i was going to us it for digi injection, i even bought the throttle bodies but it never took shape. For now.
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