"Houston, we have no ignition!"

I beieve a lot of confusion is derived from the plathura of articles available from countless sources including suppliers.

For example I "copy-n-paste" the following FROM:

http:www.randakksblog.com/ballast-resistors-explained-ballast-testing-procedure/#comments


Qoute : <........"I’m aware that there has been some contradictory advice regarding ballasts issued by various manufacturers of coils and electronic ignitions. My view is to side with the manufacturers of electronic ignitions on this point........Here’s where the contradictory advice shows up…
In this combination, Dyna recommends NO BALLAST.However, Accel recommends that the OEM ballast be retained. end quote

The simplicity of the above comment alone, is enough to create doubt confusion :blink: and question :blush: when combined with the seemingly too many alteranative coil options; all of which have their own internal resistance values.

I admit I am "boggled" therefore I must revert back to my over-simplified view that the resistor is required for the protection of the coils when creating a spark and additionally acts as a limiter to protect the ignitor from the reverse inductance after the spark. Thus, a coil that must be matched to the system as a whole inclusive of the critically important resitor.

...and this will end this topic for myself. There's a storm approaching and I have an insatiable desire to fly a kite........ with a resistor in series with the line :woohoo:

Thanks for the effort in this discussion

Not so sure about the resistor in series in the line, but you might want to tie a capacitor onto the tail of your kite. Hate to lose you over an uncalculated back flow of electrons.

KZQ wrote:

trikebldr wrote: ...I know it sounds like the same resistance is available to control that reverse current, and it is, but the specs of the primary's windings have been changed to provide that total resistance, as well as a "hotter spark" (read as "more power!) and these changes also increase the amount of reverse current. Without more resistance than just the coils primary, these currents are virtually uncontrolled and more than from a stock coil...

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for that explanation! It seemed very clear to me. After I ditched the GM coil pack because of it's lower resistance I fitted DYNA coils, I want to say DYNA-1s, but I'm not sure right now. (I had to buy four so I have an extra coil laying around here somewhere.) The only thing I'm sure of is that they were three ohm coils. The part of your post that I quoted above seems to say despite the three ohm primary I'm still endangering my igniter. I believe that there are plenty of 13s out there running DYNA coils without a ballast resistor. Is there any place on the web where we might explore the various coil packs and find one that more closely matches the stock coils?

Thanks

Bill

Part of the confusion comes from the fact that when the ignitor is driving the coil, it has control of the current output, but when it shuts off after the coil has been driven, it has no control of any current supplied by an outside source (the coil's primary). So, that reverse current as the magnetic field is collapsing is virtually uncontrolled, and has the POSSIBILITY of damaging the ignitor's output circuit.
This is where it is very difficult to discuss this topic on a forum because we have no empiricle data from either the Kawi engineers as to the ignitor's circuits, nor any of the coil makers. All I can do is to try to relay some basic principles in play here to help explain why just throwing new coils at the situation may or may not work and may or may not damage the output of the stock ignitor.
I will end it here by just reminding everybody that if you want "more spark", then the ignitor has to give more from it's output. How far are you willing to push that limit? And, why are you asking it to? Did Kawasaki design and market a sub-standard ignition system? Are you trying to push the engine beyond it's design parameters? If so, then everything supporting the ignition of the air/fuel mixture needs to be redesigned, too.
My recommendation is that if you must try different aftermarket coils, don't even think about the costs, and set the stock ignitor aside for an aftermarket CD or MSD driver system. Otherwise, you are trying to get champaign results on a beer budget. And, if you don't have a strong background in electronics, it's like shooting in the dark.
What's funny is, I have yet to read where anybody's bike, when in good, stock condition otherwise, has had trouble with the engine firing smoothly. Hard starting in really cold conditions, or when the carbs are not feeding quite right are what I call out of bounds conditions to expect the ignition to work well. If you are trying to overcome these abnormal conditions by bumping the sparks up a few notches, then you are on your own. Don't expect any of the stock components to be part of the "hotter" system. There is no such thing as a coil that can magically give you a better spark than what the stock ignitor is capable of driving.

&quot;scotch wrote: I admit I am "boggled" therefore I must revert back to my over-simplified view that the resistor is required for the protection of the coils when creating a spark and additionally acts as a limiter to protect the ignitor from the reverse inductance after the spark. Thus, a coil that must be matched to the system as a whole inclusive of the critically important resitor.

...and this will end this topic for myself. There's a storm approaching and I have an insatiable desire to fly a kite........ with a resistor in series with the line :woohoo:

Thanks for the effort in this discussion

Scotch, it was never intended that anybody get this whole topic at first reading, or even second or third. We're dealing with some deep principles of electronics and a lot of it is new to a lot of guys. It took me nearly a year of playing with this stuff before one day when that light came on in my head and all the pieces just fell into the total picture. Now, I can't even see individual pieces of the puzzle anymore. Everything is happening at once in my mind. So, don't give up. From individual examples you will pick up a bit here and there until all those bits add up to make sense.

You did make one very important comment about the coil needing to be matched to the system! EXCELLENT! This is maybe the gist of this whole topic in the end. If the coil wasn't in the original design, then it's just a crap shoot if it will work well.

It would sure be a lot of fun to be able to hold class with all of you guys sitting in the same room and a bike set up with a good assortment of aftermarket coils to test, using an oscilloscope to look at what's happening at each point of the system.

"It took me nearly a year of playing with this stuff before one day when that light came on in my head and all the pieces just fell into the total picture. Now, I can't even see individual pieces of the puzzle anymore. Everything is happening at once in my mind. So, don't give up. From individual examples you will pick up a bit here and there until all those bits add up to make sense."

This sounds like the premise for another Matrix movie

Its been a very interesting topic so far and I for one am enjoying and learning from all of you