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Too rich

  • poptheclutch
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Too rich

1 month 1 week ago
#34267
I'm on my third go around with my 1980 project bike carbs. Did a full rebuild on them when I first got the bike back in Feb. Keyster carb kits. Got it running but was too rich. Black exhaust smoke, black plugs, but actually seemed to run ok except for some blubbering off idle. Went through them again. All seemed ok, wet float levels correct, etc. Still too rich, in fact when I pulled there carbs raw fuel was pooled in the rubber intakes. Took a break from carbs to do the top end. Now the motor is together, sounds good no more weird noises, but same issue with carbs. The pic with 3 needles are the originals, all were replaced. I can't imagine they wore like that ? One thing I'm wondering is when the slide and needle are assembled, I can move the needle down about 3 mm, then it springs back up. Is this normal ? Any ideas ? I don't want to carbon up my nice clean valves etc.
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  • KZQ
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Re: Too rich

1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago
#34268
I took my practice carbs apart and as I hold the individual slide I can pull the needle down about 3mm. The spring returns it as I release it. I agree with your arrangement of pieces in the attached close up. I fittted a DG six into one system to my 13. the folks at Dyno jet recommended a smallerĀ  main jet if I remember correctly they wanted me to start at 96's which they provided.
Bill
1968 BSA Shooting Star, 1970 BSA 650 Lightning, 1974 Kawasaki W3, 1976 KZ900 A4, 1979 KZ750 B4, 1979 KZ750 B4 Trike, 1981 KZ1300, 1982 KZ1100 Spectre, 1985 Kawasaki ZN1300, 2000 Honda Valkyrie Tourer, 2009 Yamaha RoadLiner S
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by KZQ.
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Re: Too rich

1 month 1 week ago
#34269
When I first started this project it had the sock exhaust. When I pulled the engine one of the head pipes broke off (rusty) in the collector. I was planning on a Delkevic any way, which is what's on now. Looking at the collector this is definitely not a performance pipe. Bike pretty much runs same with 6-1 as with old stock exhaust. With the air cleaner off, looking down the carb throats, I can see what to me is a large amount of fuel coming out of the needle jet as I blip the throttle. IDK what I'm missing . I've rebuilt a ton of carbs, not these though. I'm going to move the needle clips all the way up and see what happens ?

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Re: Too rich

1 day 4 hours ago
#34420
I'm still banging my head against the wall on this. Almost done with the bike but I can't seem too solve the excess fuel problem. I ran it a couple days ago at idle only, for about 10 minutes, never blipped the throttle. Pulled the carbs and there was a huge amount of fuel in the carb boots. With carbs off the bike and aux fuel tank connected, there is no flooding and all wet float levels are at the low side of correct. The starter plungers appear to be sealing. One thing I thought odd was, I flushed thru the starter pick up tube to check seal of the plunger. When I did the alcohol I was using came out from around where the tube goes into the carb body (looks like a little well there) Any ideas appreciated !

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Re: Too rich

23 hours 33 minutes ago - 23 hours 32 minutes ago
#34422
Throwing out 2 ideas for you to ponder.

You talk about blipping the throttle and seeing a lot of fuel coming up for the main jet needle. You really shouldn't see fuel flow at the mains until the engine starts crawling over 2000=2500 rpm. At that point the throttle plunger should start to rise and then the fuel can be seen coming up from the main jet. If the fuel comes up and looks like big droplets of fuel and not more like a spray pattern, then the emulsion tube side ports are not allowing mixing air to "emulsify" the fuel turning it into a spray pattern. It's a fine point often overlooked when cleaning / inspecting carbs during a rebuild. The other issue that can cause this phenomenon is if the float level is too high which will close off some of those emulsion ports to available air and not allow enough air to emulsify the fuel.
Also, are the throttle plungers fully closing??

Spit back into the intake boots at idle usually is attributed to late closing of the intake cam such that when the piston is coming up to compress the mixture, the cam is holding the intake valve open allowing the mixture to be pushed back out into the carb / intake tract. On very lumpy cams like a 290 duration, this is a common issue that causes such a lumpy idle. In this case, I would question the timing of the intake camshaft. Just double check camshaft timing to rule that out.
Last edit: 23 hours 32 minutes ago by Kawboy.

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Re: Too rich

21 hours 16 minutes ago
#34426
By " throttle plunger" are you referring to the slide aka piston valve in parts diagram, or is that something else ? Float levels are correct. As far as cam timing, it's right. The cams been our at least 3 times. Now, whether the cams are stock, IDK. Looked stock to me. But someone's been in the motor before re ; one piston was in backwards. I hate working on stuff that some previous "mechanic" has done who knows what to.....

The bike actually seems to run ok, idles well, a little blubber just off idle. But it is sucking gas like crazy. I can literally watch the level in my aux fuel tank drop when it's running. Sooty, but not wet plugs. Pull carbs off and puddles of gas in the intake rubbers.

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