TOPIC:

Welcome from Switzerland

best regards,

Holger

Hi Dave from New Zealand
sound like you have had a interesting life around bikes
i saw Miguel Duhamel race in France when he was on the 500cc
i spannerd and run the transporters in the 500 gp series for awhile, working with the race teams is a great way of getting round the world
your RZ brings back fond memory s of a couple i raced/rode in NZ
if you get interested in filling us in on any of your past drop a line in Talk to me
regards Dion

usakz1300 wrote: NO, no dry welding.

The ONLY way to add metal to a crank is by a method that flows liquid fluid flux onto the crank as it is being welded. This way, heat, warping, filling are all done correctly. The 1300 cranks are steel, so, they weld well, when done right. Here in the states, we have any number of performance shops that can do this service, they are geared to cars, but, now, all the welding units are computer driven, put the right info in, get the nice job out the other end. The wet weld process should work on steel cams as well.

I don't know of anything newer than that wet welding process.

Think about an 8mm over bore, 6mm stroker, with a bit of judicious work, it should work. Extra plate clutch, and a nice 6 speed transmission, sequential DFI, even better.

I'm familiar with a process called submerged arc in which a MIG wire is used with a dry powdered flux being dropped on the molten puddle as the welding progresses. I'm very curious about this submerged process. I see where you're going with this but can;t ind any info regarding the process.
My background- I was a pressure pipe welder in a nuclear power plant and carried 8 different welding tickets for welding.

This process used to be the way many crankshaft people here did the strokers, and some still use it for specialty cranks like ours. the main issue as to why it isn't used to do many cranks these days is, CHINA. Why waste time and production/salary costs, when for significantly less, a whole new crank can be obtained from China, and have the profit margin go ballistic, instead of paltry low.

Also, when a stroker is made from an existing crank, many factors need to be considered, such as counterweights, do they need to be increased in size, profile, weight?? Weight isn't a real problem, a metal called "Mallory Metal" can be inserted to change/maintain correct balance, but, if the actual counter weight profile has to be altered larger, not easy to do on a counterweight too small to do it safely/correctly.

I will see if Crankshaft Company, or Falicon are doing the process. I am now well into my big bore only street 13, cam chain stuff, re-ring, paint it. When I get that done this early summer, I will get back to the stroker setup, and more into it. I do remember the process did not use powdered metals, it was a submerged arc doing. The whole thing was done to eliminate voids, bad adhesion of the added metals. I haven't ever seen one done that way to lose metal, nor cause problems, when done right.

On the cam chain issue, namely, the noise from the steel roller, yup, they will be noisy as they bed in after the roller is installed. When the parts get happy with each other, the noise either goes completely away, or reduces significantly, nothing to worry about. Never have liked the plastic gears, old or new.


UPDATE: 1:44PM, pacific Daylight Time, I just got off the phone with Falicon. They still do welded strokers, submerged arc. We spoke of the problems with doing a crank like ours, and they have never done one of them, lots of inline and V4's. Their concerns are warping that cannot be straightened out of the crank, from the heat still involved with the welding. Some long cranks just do not straighten well, never do get back to working correctly. He asked if I had a crank to do that I could send him, I don't. He did say he would try, if he had a crank, with no charge if it dodn't work, about $1,050 to weld, grind, finish if he can do it to his standards. I have had him do 4 cylinder cranks,, and he is as picky as I am in doing it dead on right. Anybody got a crank with a rod journal out?

Fascinating usakz,

No too far from me is a machine shop that does crank mods by splatter welding. They build up the journals, then machine to size. Then send the cranks out for Nitriding, finally they grind it back to the final dimensions when its done. I'm not sure of specifics of their process, as far as filler metal and the nitro carburizing process itself, but I have seen the results and they are impressive.

I would think they would have the same issues with distortion on the 1300 crank.

Post some pictures for us when you can. We would love to see your build, and your other bikes too form the sound of things.

You might have luck posting in the wanted section for a buggered up crank shaft.

One question I would have for someone that has an engine apart, might someone put the crank in the upper case, cylinder, rod and piston in place, and turn the crank in the case. Lets see just why the rods do not split in the full horizontal plane. What would a 6mm stroker crank set hit inside the cases?????

From the costs of welding, I think someone with a good CNC program setup could spin a crank out of billit steel, then have a crank grinder finish it, better off than the welded stroker, possible option.

I don't take good pictures, and, I am mostly running around the world all the time, just got back from Qatar, going to Argentina in a week. I am about the only person in the universe that can ruin a photo taken with a device that won't/can't mess them up.