Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC:

Camshaft Chain(s) - Options?? part# 92057-1018 8 years 8 months ago #8478

  • Kawboy
  • Kawboy's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 2997
  • Thank you received: 1029
During the course of my rebuild/conversion of a 1980 K|1300 B2 model I decided to do some back tracking into the engine. I started out 19 years ago when I picked up the bike as a basket case from a kid in his early 20's who had done a valve job and screwed up the timing of the valves and bent a valve. He gave up on the project and that's where I came in. Being a bit of a motor head (understatement) I started the rebuild with a minor port polish, refaced the valves and valve seats and started reassembly. Being a father with young kids and a new wife, life just seemed to occupy my time in other ways than finishing off the KZ. So it sat for the next 17 years waiting for me to find some "MY Time" to go back to things that I love, like working on the old KZ.
Early this year I started the rebuild and it's been at a slow pace. Part of the reason happens to be because I joined this forum and after going through the FAQ page (which is a godsend to this forum) I came up with a list of things I needed to investigate and understand before modifying or design changing anything on my bike and especially before starting it up and taking it for a ride. If you haven't figured me out as of yet, I'm all about the engineering aspect of machinery more so than about the riding experience. I will investigate things to death before I make changes.

There's lots of info on the site about the cam chain tensioner and the faults associated with the original. The consequences of running with a faulty tensioner is the abnormal wear and tear on the camshaft drive chain and associated gears and tensioning wheels etc. The camshaft chain according to Partszilla is obsolete so we need a replacement (aftermarket).

Let’s start by talking about the stock camshaft chain. As near as I can tell, the original design is a Morse Silent Chain inverted tooth chain labeled as a HY-VO Silent Chain. Morse is a subsidiary of Borg Warner who as a company is very reputable in the driveline business. Kawasaki opted to use this silent chain design, but as to who manufactured and supplied the chain they used, I can't tell. There are a number of chain manufacturers out there producing silent chains, some of them are very reputable, others questionable.
Since the advent of the internet, we now have International Global markets and as such anybody can manufacture items and sell them as "direct replacements". They may suggest that they have reproduced these items to meet or exceed the original standard. They may also suggest that they are an ISO 9001 company which would lead you to believe that they have high standards. ISO 9001 only requires then to have an internal quality control aspect to their manufacturing process, ie. self monitoring, self regulating, no reporting to an external regulator. Yes, it’s a standard but as far as standards go, it’s somewhat a low quality standard.
One of the negative effects that’s happened because of the internet driven expanding market is that a number of “third world” companies are now flooding the market with lower quality parts at reduced prices compared to reputable companies who’ve been marketing quality parts for years. And add to that because of reduced market share, quality manufacturers have now gone to these “third Worlds” and started manufacturing to reduce costs so as to be able to compete with the new market. The end result is that we the consumer have been forced to accept lower quality items because the “good stuff” is no longer manufactured. Who’s at fault here, We the consumer!! We opted to buy the cheaper items rather than the more expensive items and without realizing that we drove the manufacturing to produce cheaper items.
So why post this topic “Camshaft Chain Option(s)”? We need a replacement chain. We don’t know the original standard. We don’t know the original supplier to the OEM part. It was manufactured 35 years ago and no longer available. Since the original design, there have been a number of engineering changes to the design in order to improve longevity. Also, I suspect that in order for different manufacturers to produce Silent Chains that will fit the original design gears (drive trains), they all had to come up with minor insignificant design changes in order to patent the new design and produce the item without infringing on copyrights.
What I would like to do here is take advantage of our great Forum and capitalize on our experiences and see if as a group, we can reverse engineer a decent replacement for our Camshaft Chain. It will be a group effort and if nothing else, a great exercise in seeing how engineering change should be done properly, with documentation (posts in the forum) to track the change and monitor for positive or adverse effects. I’m asking for your help here. If you have any relevant information please post

Where does that leave us? Where can we go from here? We need to find out if we can,
1. Who produced the original chain, does anybody know?
2. Who amongst us has an original chain (and they know this to be a fact) and can they accurately measure it up and post? (answer- I do and being the third owner I do know this to be a fact, so I’ll post)
3. Who presently is manufacturing chains that fit the original design?
4. Who on this site has replaced their Camshaft Chain and what components are they currently running with, and by that I mean what chain did you install, what manual adjust tensioner or self adjusting tensioner with what modifications, new nylon tensioning gear or steel gear, state of the drive gear and driven gears at the time of replacement.
5. What engine oil are you using and how often are you changing it?
6. If you have replaced the chain, how frequent have you monitored the chain and adjusted if required. How many miles or kilometers since replacement.
7. How’s the noise level? Better/worse?
8. Have you had a chance to look at the gears since replacement?
9. Typical weather you tend to ride in more importantly how hot?
10. Are you a cruiser running easy or are you aggressive and running the tires off of the bike?
11. If you replaced the chain, at what mileage did it need doing? What chain came out (trying to ascertain what chains are failing and at what mileage)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Camshaft Chain(s) - Options?? part# 92057-1018 8 years 8 months ago #8550

  • Tyler
  • Tyler's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 251
  • Thank you received: 46
Kawboy, have you considered that the chain may have in fact been made by Kawasaki heavy industries? They manufactured way more stuff than just motorcycles. In fact building motorcycles is more of a pastime for the industrial juggernaut, they built ships, aircraft, hydro-electric dams, turbines, etc. Its not such a stretch to think they built the chain or had one of their subsidiaries produce it form a licensed design...

As far as spurious parts go... no I highly doubt anyone ever made them specifically for parts support. The only ones out there are NOS factory production (as far as I have ever seen anyway) Consider how few 1300's were built every year, it really doesn't make any sense that a third party company would reproduce one, it wouldn't even pay for a vendor to stock one.

Also I'm curious why you need one? Was it damaged some how? Is it over the service limit? (that would be a very rare circumstance from what I have seen).

To answer a few of your questions directly

My bike had 65K on it when I took it apart, it may have been worked on before there were marker lines on the cam gears.

I had to replace the plastic sprocket on the tensioner arm, that was it the guides were just fine. I used the ZX10 tensioner with 10mm removed from the spring to reduce the tension, this a well documented part substitution.

I'm pretty sure the 13's eat tires for breakfast, lunch, and dinner... heavy bikes like rubber no matter how they are driven.

IF you do get a replacement chain check how it compares to your old one. I'm curious about this now...
1981 KZ1300

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Tyler.

Camshaft Chain(s) - Options?? part# 92057-1018 8 years 8 months ago #8557

  • Tyler
  • Tyler's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 251
  • Thank you received: 46
Oops ZX-10 is a typo, meant to say zx-11, also used on the zrx-1200 and the Concurs. Kawi part number is 12048-1113.

This is the part I used.





I Removed 10mm in length from the spring. There are a number of people on this forum and others that have run this part for many thousands of miles and inspected the tensioner parts and guides afterwards. It is the best option for the 1300 IMO.

There is an option to replace the plastic sprocket with a metal one, I have no experience with that part. I did however replace the plastic and rubber rollers on my KZ650 with metal sprockets made by Liska as well as a manual tensioner. Keep in mind the 650 uses a roller chain. While this may be a more robust set-up it does increase the chain noise.
1981 KZ1300
Attachments:
The following user(s) said Thank You: Kawboy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Camshaft Chain(s) - Options?? part# 92057-1018 8 years 8 months ago #8564

  • Kawboy
  • Kawboy's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 2997
  • Thank you received: 1029
Thanks for the reply Tyler. I finally found a direct replacement made by D.I.D with a master link being supplied by MC Distribution through my local Kawasaki dealer. The Morse chain model # is 82RH2015 158 link. Morse were the original design developer for the HY-Vo chain . Having the master link means I can change the chain without splitting the engine, so looking forward to that.

Did you get the cams reground by Megacycle? How bad did they hit you up?? I've ported this head and will probably put a set of .375" 270 durations in it for giggles. Curious to see where I can go with this. REALLY like to put on a set of 34mm Flatslides, but ideally I just might customize the head with port injection and go with plug on coil ignition. Ambitious, but then this is what turns my crank. I love being a motorhead. Engineering at it's finest.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Camshaft Chain(s) - Options?? part# 92057-1018 8 years 8 months ago #8566

  • Tyler
  • Tyler's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
  • Posts: 251
  • Thank you received: 46
I stand corrected.

There is an off-the-shelf chain with the correct size and pitch... that is a very handy bit of information you've dug up Kawboy. I had myself convinced it was a one-off part.

Megacycle wants $800 US to weld and grind a set of cores. I have never dealt with either Mega or Web cams. The word on the street is that megacycle is the superior product. I have had several custom automotive cams done by Delta Camshaft with good results. I have yet to get a quote from them. I put mine together with stock cams, when its running properly I'll look at making the swap. I didn't want to change too much at once and fight tuning issues on a bike I have little experience with.

Megacycle had quite few profiles for the 1300, more than they list in their catalog. Drop them a line sometime if you are curious.

A port injected kz1300... :evil: :evil: :evil:


Yup I like it! B)
1981 KZ1300

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Camshaft Chain(s) - Options?? part# 92057-1018 8 years 8 months ago #8568

  • Kawboy
  • Kawboy's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 2997
  • Thank you received: 1029
There's a number of suppliers out there making chains that match the size and pitch of our bike.
Forseti - no idea who they are, don't have a web page.
K&L - again not sure of who they are
Morse- subsidiary of Borg Warner- excellent power transmission manufacturer and original developer of the Hy-VO silent chain
Hot Cams has the chain but not in our length
Regina Chain- supply the Morse chain to suppliers
D.I.D have a line on the chain

The 2 predominant numbers for the spec on the chain are 82RH2015 SCHA 0412

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.148 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum