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Starter Clutch Repair Help 8 years 8 months ago #8374

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The photo of the destroyed starter motor suggests to me that for some reason the starter clutch did not disengage and the starter motor was "over-spun". I believe this is why all the armature commutators are scattered and the brushes chewed-up by their depature. Centrifugal force !!!!
1980 KZ 1300 sr# KZT30A-009997
Always High - Know Fear !

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Starter Clutch Repair Help 8 years 8 months ago #8375

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scotch wrote: The photo of the destroyed starter motor suggests to me that for some reason the starter clutch did not disengage and the starter motor was "over-spun". I believe this is why all the armature commutators are scattered and the brushes chewed-up by their depature. Centrifugal force !!!!


Right on the money Scotch. Seen it before. Can't believe people can't hear the starter screaming when it happens and shut it down immediately.

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Starter Clutch Repair Help 8 years 8 months ago #8379

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Thank you for the detailed explanation fellas, I really appreciate it.

I feel a bit overwhelmed but this advise is very helpful and calming. This poor machine has not seen a lot of quality care over the past few decades. My budget is limited so I am trying to do what I can to save a little here and there on labor. There are some things I won't dream of touching. I'm terrified of the mess the valves and cam chain tensioner may be in. The previous owner claims it has a manual cam chain tensioner mod but given the sad state of his other repairs I shudder to think about it. One problem at a time.

I'll keep you posted on my progress. It will be a few days before I can get back at it. Busy with work which will be beneficial for the 1300 war chest.

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Starter Clutch Repair Help 8 years 8 months ago #8385

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Intimidation is likely the biggest issue anyone will have when dealing the "the new" and "the unknown". One's honesty to himself in these times is a big step forward and a valuable asset. It changes the word from intimidation to "cautious-awareness". I was one of those who at some point of ownership realized that once the warranty was gone, I was on my own. Even "back in the day" when the 1300's were still in the vocabulary of rider/owners, very few mechanics had a comprehensive understanding of the systems that had been incorporated into the beast. This I believe was in part to the very few #'s of 1300's produced and their lack of their exposure to the shops. When I bought my first 1300 in April of '79, the dealer had no manuals, no reference material and hadn't even received the related Microfiche support. My '79 came out of the box with problems and to watch the dealer mechanics fumble and babble and openly admit "they had no clue" was disappointing, to say the least. This was because there was no form of factory training or support provided at that time. At least, not to the small shops. As it turned out my '79 was one of only two imported and sold in B.C. Canada. Scarce- I'd say so! Serious carb issues and a terrible whine in 2nd gear ended up forcing the dealer to remove the engine and split the cases. Keep in mind this was on a brand new machine which at the time was priced at $5300.00 cdn! Needless to say the sight of this made me gag and with no results forthcoming I sued the dealer and ended up with my new '80 1 year later. By then the manuals and factory support literature was established but the guessing games continued because no one had any serious "hands-on" experience. One must keep in perspective the fact that this machine in it's day had incorporated new technology and designs that had never been seen in one model, before. Mechanics were intimidated !
Almost ALL of what we now know about the 1300 and it's systems have been self-taught by dedicated and determined (stubborn) owners but it also explains why so many ended up behind the woodshed. (I'm referring to the bike - not necessarily the owner and no pun intended) A perfect example of this is the '79 carb-set I rebuilt and documented here. We all know that idle screws need to be set for about 3.5 turns but the '79 carbs were still capped and the idle-screws set at 1.5 turns average. I can only imagine the frustration, anguish and inevitable disgust the owner must have had when the bike failed to run and the dealer was obviously, of no help. Imagine today trying to get the bike to run on 1.5 turns ! If a dealer couldn't assess, repair and adjust, how could a new owner at that time. It's obvious by the current "new owners" we see in this forum that these derelicts still exist and many are being rebuilt or at least cannibalized for their valuable parts.
In my early years of "being on my own" with my 1300 I felt overwhelmed as well. No dealer would touch it. My '80 sat dormant for many seasons. A lot of you can understand my despair when I discovered my floats weren't floating and subsequently discovered after months of exhaustive searching, could find no replacements. This is when I had two choices: 1) sell it for essentially "scrap" or find the solution myself. As so many can attribute this is what most owners have been faced with. Appreciably, this is why this forum was started and still exists and thank goodness for that! How else would we know about the critical CCT requirement. How else would we know to remove the Alternator plug and solder the leads. How else would we have discovered any of the mods, fixes and alternative solutions.

The bottom line to all of this is simple. Today's owners know more about these machines now, than ANYONE did back in the day.

It's natural to feel overwhelmed when the answer to an issue isn't apparent. The thought of having to split the cases or remove the head and cylinders is daunting to me! Knowing I have this forum as a resource and that the intelligent and experienced support is here for the asking is what removes that doubt. We just need to admit when we need help when all of our own abilities and intelligent research leave us with no viable solution.

Foot-note: I just finished a valve adjustment which required 4 new shims. My first approach was to call some dealers and inquire about the shop cost to have a mechanic do the work. Not out of laziness or intimidation but simply to avoid delays in getting it back on the road. It seemed logical that without a selection of my own shims my accomplishing this task would take much longer. NO DEALER WOULD ACCEPT THE TASK ! As soon as I mentioned KZ1300, I swear I could hear the running footsteps of mechanics as the back door slammed shut behind them as they ran away! And by today's standards adjusting the valves on a 1300 is very simple and straightforward compared to most modern bikes.

If you have read this to this point, congratulations ! You've proven to yourself that you have the patience and motivation required to make a concerted effort to better yourself in the ongoing saga of repairing and maintaining an iconic piece of motorcycle history !

"You have nothing to fear, but fear itself" !
1980 KZ 1300 sr# KZT30A-009997
Always High - Know Fear !
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Starter Clutch Repair Help 8 years 8 months ago #8386

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Scotch, that was an awesome read. You've really nailed it. Hell, one of the reasons I parted with my 79 KZ1300 in around 2000-2001 was because no one wanted to work on the thing and I didn't have the knowledge, support or tools. The thing that led my to give up with the coils. Mine had gone bad and several replacements I attempted were also failures. Couldn't get it right. Even just having the carbs cleaned and synced was an ordeal. No one wanted to touch it.

Your experience with the dealers when it was new was similar to my experience with the dealer who sold me my ZX12r. That bike had some groundbreaking elements incorporated into it... though not to the extent of the 1300. In fact, the dealer ended up screwing me badly in the end. I took it in for its 20k valve adjustment and 400km later it dropped a valve and grenaded the motor. $6500+HST in parts to rebuild through the dealer. It was 140km past the warranty and they screwed me. I think they buggered the valve job which caused the failure. When we took the cover off we discovered a shim sitting beside the bucket. I believe that shim should have been under the bucket and they forgot it somehow. $9000 dollars later I had a 1320cc Carpenter race engine and a progressive NOS kit. Made 220 on motor and 300 under the juice.

Thing are a bit different now. I have some tools and some friends who are knowledgeable and are willing to help. It is complicated by the fact I live almost 2 hours from them now. Regardless, my friend has offered to come pick it up and bring it to his garage where he has all the tools he needs, a lift and lots more knowledge than me... so it could be a good help.

To complicate matters, I just discovered another one for sale, same year. DG header Accel coils and wires. ZX11 cam tensioner kit. Apparently 35k Kms... for $3000.00 I'll have two, one complete and rideable and one I can either save for parts or continue to build at a more relaxed pace. I just want to ride dammit!
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