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Fuel and start up issues 5 years 5 months ago #21635

  • StanG
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Well, where do I start without offending and sounding know it all smart-ass while I really know nothing beyond real life experience.

The cold, hot, whatever, KZ1300 start problems have been a prominent theme. Here is what I found. The KZ is a fuel ethanol free era bike. Most likely, a leaded fuel era. What does it mean? Negative effects of ethanol lingering in every crevice of the fuel system using current pumps, especially the very sensitive crucial parts in the carburetor. Led also 'lubricates' parts, but let's just forget it now. But anyone would wonder why racing fuels are full of friendly led? Well, at least the two strokes.

The 1980's. Honda Goldwing GL1100, 1983. Then the KZ1300 1982. Fair to say same era? Whatever carburetor and fuel delivery particulars, I'd safely assume all made successfully in their own might for the same gasoline - by coincidence ethanol free. A pure gasoline, right?

So, I ran on regular 87 octane with up to 10%, sometimes 15, gas. On the Honda. Ran great. But not long enough. Started with coughing eventually, ended with running on 2 or 3 cylinders and a hell of a rattle and shake when starting it! Just awful. Up to the point where I couldn't start it. I bought a new carburetor rack, obviously. But before changing the hardware, I filled the tank with ethanol free gasoline. Instant improvement. It took about 2 months maybe before those annoyances of rattling and disturbing start ups went away. Sunshine, hot traffic, zero and negative temperatures, whatever - NEVER had a start up problem, NEVER misfire, NEVER running on any but all four cylinders.

Now, fast forward one year of happy riding and crisp throttle response - EVERY time. I filled up the tank with the regular 10% ethanol containing 87 Octane, or whatever the actual ethanol containing gasoline. One tank! The engine spoke back to me right away. Not Happy!!! Less power, rpm's went up by 10%, irregular idle, trouble with smooth start up. Let it sit for a couple days. Start up: running on 3 only cylinders again. Difficult to eventually having it smooth - just rough idle and sometimes one, sometimes two cylinders missing!!! Noticeable less power on the road. Fast forward again a few days, and another fill up with 87 ethanol gas. Just started up the engine. Running on two, 2 (!!!!!) cylinders, then 3, then 4, then 3, and so it goes. 15 minutes of gasoline smell, shaking, roughness, and stalling engine!!!! Coincidence? I say.... - NOT!!!!

I don't want to go on too much about this, as my mind is clearly made up. With all due respect to the more knowledgeable than me and professional, while it might be a half assed good solution, I religiously believe ethanol completely free fuel is the only way to have these bikes run correct. My KZ starts at the very press of the button - after sitting for a week in a cold outside garage. No hesitation. In the meantime, the Goldwing is still fucked despite filling it with ethanol free at 3/4 empty. It will take time, but I know - never putting ethanol containing gasoline in this bike will get it back the way I got used to on the road again.

Gasoline is flipping expensive here in Vancouver, BC. Especially the ethanol free. I just paid $30.71 for a 17.36 liter fill up. That's what used to be filling up a frigging car!!!
Sick. But what can I do? I am the owner and keeper of this bike, and the bike deserves all the best care from me it needs. No cheeping out on delaying oil changes, and this ridiculously expensive gasoline - cheaper than having a couple of kids. So let it be. No 360 gas treatments, no gimmicks. Nothing will go inside the tank of this bike except ethanol free fuel. Unless absolutely no choice. Ditto.

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Fuel and start up issues 5 years 5 months ago #21644

  • Tonto
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Stan, hi
in the UK we can't get ethanol free at the pumps anymore (due to EU commitments on take-up of bio-fuel), but 3 winters ago I was sick of petrol / ethanol related issues with my Z13 & Z900, so brimmed them with "Aspen" Fuel (zero ethanol, guaranteed not to degrade over long periods): really expensive stuff, but both bikes did behave much better, even after longish periods of standing over winter. Can you still get zero ethanol at the pumps in Canada ?

Only drawback with Aspen was the cost: in the UK its currently about £34 GBP / $50 CAD per 20 Lts.
That notwithstanding, probably a lot cheaper than a carb strip, pet cock rebuild etc.

Cheers Tim
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without the loss of enthusiasm " Winston Churchill.

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Fuel and start up issues 5 years 5 months ago #21645

  • Kawboy
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Tonto wrote: Stan, hi
in the UK we can't get ethanol free at the pumps anymore (due to EU commitments on take-up of bio-fuel), but 3 winters ago I was sick of petrol / ethanol related issues with my Z13 & Z900, so brimmed them with "Aspen" Fuel (zero ethanol, guaranteed not to degrade over long periods): really expensive stuff, but both bikes did behave much better, even after longish periods of standing over winter. Can you still get zero ethanol at the pumps in Canada ?

Only drawback with Aspen was the cost: in the UK its currently about £34 GBP / $50 CAD per 20 Lts.
That notwithstanding, probably a lot cheaper than a carb strip, pet cock rebuild etc.

Cheers Tim


In Ontario Canada, if you went back 10-15 years ago, you would have seen tanker trucks rolling down the road for Shell, Esso, Petro Canada, Ultramar and Canadian Tire. In the last 5 years, almost every tanker running down the road is from a common fuel shipping supplier. Here in the City of Kawartha Lakes I see the same tanker dropping fuel at the Esso on the corner of my street then pulling out and heading to the Shell station about .5 kilometers down the road to drop fuel. That same truck and driver I've seen at the Ultramar which is 300 meters from the Esso station. I can't believe that this tanker is coming from a yard that has fuel stored in it for Esso , Shell and Ultramar so I don't know what to believe anymore. Shell fuel does not indicate any ethanol in their fuel ie. no label on the pump indicating ethanol. Their fuel is nitrogen enriched I believe but if the tanker is the same one fueling up the other 2 stations in town, how would I know for sure I'm buying Shell Fuel?

So here's a simple little tool for testing for ethanol in fuel. It's basically a graduated bottle. You put water in the bottom up to the line indicated. You add fuel up to the fuel line indicated. You screw on the top and give it a shake. Then you read the graduated indication and it shows you how much ethanol is in the fuel because the ethanol separates out of the gasoline and blends with the water. I am going to buy one of these to prove to myself that the supposedly ethanol fuel I buy at the Shell station for the Porsche is ethanol free but I fear that when I do my test, it's going to show that the fuel is the same shit I buy at any of the other fuel stations in town. EBay ethanol fuel tester

Bottom line for me. I will keep on hand Startron Enzyme fuel treatment for troubled engines that need to be rectified from ethanol exposure and I will keep on hand Stabil 360 for treating fuel that I store. I believe in the chemistry and since I can't rely on a stable supply of ethanol free fuel, I plan on being prepared for the worst case scenario
best ethanol fuel treatment report

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Last edit: by Kawboy.

Fuel and start up issues 5 years 5 months ago #21648

  • StanG
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Only drawback with Aspen was the cost: in the UK its currently about £34 GBP / $50 CAD per 20 Lts


Just went online and looked for Aspen fuel in Vancouver. That 20 liters in the UK would cost $200 CAD here!! Nuts!... It's $40.95 per 5 liter container, about 200 to fill up my smaller peanut tank! Almost cheaper to buy a new carburetor after each a bit longer ride, hahaha

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Fuel and start up issues 5 years 5 months ago #21658

  • Tonto
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Stan, Wow - I thought only us Brits got ripped off :ohmy:

I just checked prices again and on Amazon and there are crazy price variations i.e. they are selling 4 x 5Lt packs for £34 GBP - less than I paid 3 yrs ago @ £1.70 per Lt
However, if i search for 1 x 5Lt its selling at £20 GBP - which is an eye watering £4.00 per Lt - thats crazy !
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without the loss of enthusiasm " Winston Churchill.

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Fuel and start up issues 5 years 4 months ago #22000

  • StanG
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Cold started today after maybe 5 days of the bike sitting, as usually, outside under cover. The temperature is 6 degree Celsius. Bike started right away, warmed up nicely. Ethanol free. On the other hand, the GL1100 that ran perfect for a year on ethanol free, and like shit after a couple ethanol containing 87 Octane fill ups, despite already refueling with ethanol free a couple times and treating with Stabil, started only on sometimes 2 sometimes 3 cylinders, and ran like shit, and it took 20 minutes to run smooth. Needless to say, despite all the friendly chemistry in a bottle out there, there will never be ethanol containing fuel getting into those two bike's tanks.

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